Monday, November 10, 2008

Let Barack Be Barack

We've elected as president someone who is empirical, cautious, conservative with a small "c", yet unusually sure of his own judgment when he makes it, which is often slowly. He's sure to disappoint those of his supporters who believe he can raise the dead, turn water into wine, and walk on water. But he has rescued the White House from the besotted rationalists of PNAC with their Platonist designs on the world, and restored it to the realm of common reason. It's a measure of the madness of the last eight years that, for this seemingly modest contribution to the nation's welfare (and not just this nation's), grown men and women wept in gratitude on Tuesday night.
- Jonathan Raban , 'He tried his best to veil it, but Obama is an intellectual'.


Mike Bull said...

I wonder how many big decision are, to use his own words, above his "pay grade." Obama is all things to all men, but tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions. I think America has unwittingly gone from bad to worse. We will see.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

I've read The Audacity of Hope and am currently reading Dreams of My Father and I think he'll do ok. But of course he won't be able to fix everything, he's not Jesus (see this post by AE).

But to say: "I think America has unwittingly gone from bad to worse" is a pretty big call, as the last eight years must have been one of the worst Presidency's ever.

Mike Bull said...

Maybe the worst so far. To replace the so-called 'conservative' socialists, they have voted in a Fabian socialist. It is revolution by stealth, and just results in bigger government. His Fanny Mae economics might be well-intentioned but they are unworkable and foolhardy. What he's actually going to do is spread the poverty around.

His social policies are even more destructive, which many Christians seem tragically content to minimise. This (plus a bit more integrity and a track record of being willing to fight corruption within their own party) was the only real benefit of a McCain win. Christians who refuse to understand that righteousness exalts a nation have been bought with the billion dollar propaganda machine tailored to 'individuals'.

Both campaigns offered little policy and lots of empty rhetoric. As long as they continue to bribe with 'individual rights' over individual responsibility and accountability, America will continue to decline, whoever they vote for. Either way, moral relativism, religious pluralism and socialism are considered to be the status quo, but it is the left who are pushing much harder in this direction.

So, yes, it will be worse.

There's an article here:
The Californication of the ObamaNation

"Californication is really nothing new; it is a natural consequence of the worldview of the city of man, which is of course, humanism. If this election has done anything, it has revealed the sad truth that more Americans than we would like to admit really believe that government is the answer. And not just in some “solving political crises” way, but in a total, “womb-to-tomb” way. The ObamaNation was effectively “sold” to the American people in the same way that Procter & Gamble would sell laundry soap or dish detergent, the only difference being that these products actually work. The American people who bought into the $1 billion marketing machine of the ObamaNation were voting for a commodity, not a political idea. They will soon realize that commodities, just like ideas, have consequences too."

Moffitt the Prophet said...

He's not the messiah, and there are large parts of hispolicy that I disagree with. But I think he'll make a better president that a guy who can't remember how many houses he owns, who chooses someone as incompetent as Sarah Palin as a running mate, someone who continues to support the war in Iraq and is content is singing "bomb Iran."

For the best Christian response to the election, I suggest you read this post by Byron.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Have you read any of Obama's works?

Mike Bull said...

I read Byron's post last week. A lot of words to say that Amercian exceptionalism and willpower is misguided and Christianity and not government is the answer.

America, like Britain, became exceptional only because of Christianity, and the grit and determination that Christianity brings under God's blessing.

God always exalts Christian nations, and hamstrings them when they apostatise. While they remain faithful, they actually are messianic. True Christians in Europe still rely heavily on American Christianity for support, literature and encouragement. And from history it seems it doesn't take much Christianity in a nation for God to bless it.

I agree with Byron that the U.S. won't let go of their self-styled political messiahship graciously, but with Obama, the downhill ride will be much faster. The left is far more guilty of this thinking that the right.

The U.S., and the west, is trying to maintain the blessings without the Blesser. Which is why Obama's moronic policies are heading for the cliff faster than the conservatives. An individual's rights to abortion and sodomy are not the way forward. Just look at Europe.

I refrained from slamming Obama personally, and there is plenty that is worriesome. The issue is policy. But since you started it...

Sarah Palin has more experience and has achieved far more than Marxist Obama (whose much touted accomplishments have been blown way out of proportion, and whose one and only piece for the Harvard Law Review was his zealous support of unlimited abortion), and she has no ties with Chicago thugs and terrorists. Joe Biden is a plenty-documented liar and cheat, and is all for an American one-world government, one-world religion, and one-world banking system. 'Nuff said?

The choice was a bus heading to the cliff at 20mph, or one moving at 100mph. Tough choice?

I haven't read Obama's books, but I know his policies, and his I read that his 'change' has begun already, in beginning the reversal of Bush measures to discourage stem cell research and abortion. (See cnn today).

Someone who has the audacity to open a stadium rally by saying, "All praise and glory to God!" but says that Christian leaders speaking for life and marriage have "hijacked" Christianity just doesn't interest me. Obama supports sexual deviants and partial birth abortion.

Actions speak louder than words. Obama can keep his words.

That's why I think it was a choice between bad or worse, and they voted for worse.

PS I don't think the war in Iraq was justified, but I do know that the U.S. hasn't had a terrorist attack since 9/11.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

'Is Africa a country?' Sarah Palin.

Is this the kind of experience that Sarah Palin has more of than Obama.

My hope is in Jesus. Only he can bring real change. I also don't agree with Obama on stuff like abortion and stem cell research, but he was a better choice than the a party that has claimed to hold an exclusive mandate on the Christian vote.

Mike Bull said...

If Christians weren't swayed by rhetoric, they would have voted Bad instead of Worse.

Joe Biden: "When we kicked - along with France - we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon."

Hezbollah was never kicked out of Lebanon.

Joe Biden: "I said and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.'"

Lebanon is not a NATO country, nor had any NATO country been attacked by Lebanon.

Biden: "John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported."

"If Sarah Palin had made just one of the wildly inaccurate statements smugly uttered by Sen. Joe Biden in the vice presidential debate, there would have been 3-inch headlines in newspapers across America." Ann Coulter

My point about Palin was that she has actually done stuff. She has more experience that Obama, and she was Number 2 on the ticket, not 1.

Yes, vote for the party supported by groups that hate Christianity and Christians, and constantly lobby against their freedoms, rather than the one that perhaps arrogantly claims to have Christian votes. We'll show them!

Even Byron was hardpressed to produce any real reason why Obama was a good choice. After all Byron's qualifications he was left with a handful of Obama's balloon juice. Vote 1 Rhetoric!

Another point about Byron's post on American thinking is that, unlike Europe, there wasn't a class structure. Americans always got ahead by being smart and working hard.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Did he say Lebanon was a NATO country? How many NATO countries were attacked by Yugoslavia?

What has Palin done? She's been the mayor of a backwater town and governor (for only two years) of a backwater state.

And what is wrong with rhetoric? Especially when it is not just shallow, but backed up by conviction. If we made more of rhetoric, then maybe we wouldn't of had a guy who can barely string together a sentence as President for the past eight years.

Another point about Byron's post on American thinking is that, unlike Europe, there wasn't a class structure. Americans always got ahead by being smart and working hard. Sorry, can you explain the point you're making here.

Mike Bull said...


You were the one who started pointing out the Republican candidates' personal deficiencies.

Palin and Obama are inexperienced on foreign policy, but McCain isn't. And you would be happy with lying Joe Biden as president? At least McCain and Palin are honest.

The Democrats have a history of saying whatever it takes to win. Words aren't important to them. If Obama's ticket promised Marxism, unrestrained infanticide, government-sanctioned sodomy and bigger government with conviction, how do you think he would have fared? Obama runs rings around Bush with words, but words aren't actually important to liberals. When they talk about achievement, they actually mean unsustainable handouts. When they talk about freedom to choose, they actually mean legally-protected immorality and government sponsored bloodshed, in the U.S. and overseas. When they advocate tolerance, they mean to take away freedom of speech for Christians. Everything is relabelled, and Christians are sucked right in. They use long-debunked sentiments of oppression and victimisation to attract votes. There is no mention of responsibility or self-government. It is empty rhetoric.

How's this for an Obama quote:

"No one is pro-abortion." If Obama actually were pro-abortion, would his voting record and his policies look any different? Did he mention that abortion is the number one killer of black Americans, killing more than all other deaths combined?

"But Martin Luther King's famous comment about his dream - when men would be judged by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin - has been hypocritically morphed into the dictum that we should ignore the content of a man's character just so long as his skin color helps us to overlook the obvious." Doug Wilson

Luther King's niece recently said: “Senator Obama’s answers to the ills of society, of higher government spending, weaker national defense, continued tax dollars to Planned Parenthood, and support of gay marriage, are diametrically opposed to everything African Americans truly believe and anathema to the dreams of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr." And she backed it up.

The U.S. has agreed to let Barack be Barack without reading the not-so-fine print. But God has a way of allowing Hamans to get into power to bring issues to a head. Things have gone from bad to worse, and that could be good.

The point about class structure was just a factor Byron didn't mention that helps me understand their mentality. Changing the world in Europe was impossible, even with grit and determination. But the Obamanation isn't about grit and determination. It's a subtle rerun of the socialist experiment that failed over and over last century. Liberals relabel theft as "Fairness." I will be interested to see how it works out. Change is definitely needed, but Obama is a radical with a silver tongue.

The Conservatives are often corrupt and compromised, but they at least maintain some little understanding of the actual "steps" we all have to take to build a better future. Liberals pander to individual rights. Obama's already taking steps and they are in the wrong direction.

Thanks to journalist Jerome Corsi, we now know for a fact that Obama is joined at the hip with Kenya’s Marxist thug Raila Odinga, now the country’s Prime Minister. He has a history of funding and following the principles of radical leftist Saul Alinksy. And you rail against MCain for not being able to remember how many houses he owns?

So I maintain, the U.S. has voted for the greater of two evils.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Michael, when did you join the Republican Party? Biden has as much experience as McCain on foreign policy. And you haven't shown how he lied yet. I can point to examples of Palin's dishonesty (troopergate, her 'visit' to Ireland).

As for Obama's foreign experience, you have given no evidence that he has none. He is widely traveled, and highly thoughtful and articulate on matters of foreign policy.

The Democrats have a history of saying whatever it takes to win. Words aren't important to them. Any more than the Republicans, the Liberals or Labor? I'm not political naive.

What exactly is wrong with bigger government?

If Obama's ticket promised...unrestrained infanticide, government-sanctioned do you think he would have fared? Funny, because these are all things McCain supported too.

And the "Let barak be Barak" was a reference to the West Wing, not my unconditional love-sick support for Obama.

Thanks to journalist Jerome Corsi, we now know for a fact that Obama is joined at the hip with Kenya’s Marxist thug Raila Odinga, now the country’s Prime Minister. He has a history of funding and following the principles of radical leftist Saul Alinksy.
You're using labels and wild accusations (like this one I just quoted) to force your point and bully oppostion into submission. Has Obama even met Raila Odinga, or is the problem that they're Kenyan?

Moffitt the Prophet said...

Are are you saying that there is no class structure in the US?

Mike Bull said...


When were you diagnosed with Obamamania?

As I've stated a few times, I'm not arguing good versus bad. The choice was bad over worse.

Jerome Corsi is a bit "out there." A better book is The Case Against Barack Obama: The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media's Favorite Candidate

Odinga is Obama's paternal 1st cousin. He wanted to bring the whole of Kenya under Sharia law. Obama campaigned for Odinga in August of 2006, just before he filed with the US Federal Elections Commission for his presidential candidacy.


More vapid speeches by Obama. At least in 2006 the plan failed.

He is a slick, glib fraud. An empty suit. If Jed Bartlett were real, (I did get your allusion) I would be insulted by your comparison (though I would like to have a few issues out with Jed, too).

Troopergate: You need to get updated on that one.
Not guilty was the verdict. Again, how does this compare in any way with ties to a bomber, marxists and Odinga?

Lying Joe Biden: Google joe biden liar

"What exactly is wrong with bigger government?"

Oh dear, Matt. Get off the hopium.

Funny, because these are all things McCain supported too.

That seems to be the argument a lot of Christians were using. But like I said, bad to worse. Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion president ever. Check out his voting record.

Mike Bull said...

Are are you saying that there is no class structure in the US?

No. Not now.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

My goodness, your muckracking today. How can Odinga have wanted to establish Sharia when he's Anglican - or is this a Rowan Williams joke?

By the way, I didn't start the muckracking here, and would much prefer not to do it.

Re troopergate, Palin was not convicted of any crimes, but was found to have violated public trust through abuse of power (see page 8 of the report).

Obama was the better candidate. Better for America, and better for the rest of the world (in comparission to a McCain-Palin Presidency).

Mike Bull said...


Actually, you did start it. Just a little one.

Re Troopergate: Again, how does that compare? And what were her motivations? Political gain? Time to look at the beam in Obama's eye. Just imagine the uproar if McCain or Palin had turned a blind eye to organised crime for decades just to get ahead. Palin broke the rules to deal with a loose cannon. She has guts. Obama's record shows he has done everything in his power to avoid rocking the boat (including voting 'present' on contentious votes). And then he preaches Change? Gimme a break. He's just a suit financed by the liberal agenda. And with a billion in donations, he'll now be expected to do the favours they bought.

Re: Odinga. Probably a Rowan Williams joke. I found it on his blog, after all. And we know what Anglicans are capable of. Whatever the truth is, Odinga is corrupt and ruthless, and Obama was acting outside the interests of US national security. Bad judgment.

Re: Better candidate? I don't see how (unless you count his experience in turning a blind eye to the status quo). I'll meet you for a beer in a year to look back on his 'change', but how do you easily compare decline with fast-tracked decline?

Change is needed, but nobody really wants the change Obama's disastrous social and economic policies will bring. It's a step in the wrong direction.

America's McEmpire needs to pull its head in, but you vastly underestimate what your 'rest of the world' has in mind. U.S. soldiers hand out gum and cigarettes. What do Russian soldiers do? Not to mention the rest. The left's answer to police brutality is getting rid of the police force.

Anyhow, we know the real answer for the world's problems. It just bugs me when I hear Christians favouring Obama's policies.

Moffitt the Prophet said...

And I don't agree with all of Obamamania. But his policy approach is better than what the other guys had to offer.

I'm skeptical of the message of change. One, because Obama can't fix America, and two, it smells of modernity.

However, the 'left' (not that I would claim that title for myself) don't want to get rid of the army, he wants to pull them out of a war they shouldn't of been in in the first place (which may or may not have saved the US from further main land attacks, but didn't prevent the attacks on the UK).

What annoys me is when Christians holus bolus sell out their support to the Republicans as God's party.

Mike Bull said...

What annoys me is when Christians holus bolus sell out their support to the Republicans as God's party.

Well, we agree on that one. But I think McCain was a reason many Christians didn't vote.

Mike Bull said...
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Mike Bull said...
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Moffitt the Prophet said...

Sorry - I accidentally deleted the last two comments and can't get them back - but I don't think they add anything to our discussion.

Mike Bull said...

Where's Matt and what have you done with him? DIDN'T I WARN YOU ALL?!- IT'S THE END OF FREE SPEE